Joe Zhan Dialogue! Discussion on Historical GOAT (James Chapter)

Referring to our initial standards, in comparison with James, Jordan became a pioneer, while the younger James needs to play the identity of a challenger.

Compared with Jordan's previous situation of power rising up, when James entered the league and began to pursue his seniors, the NBA's honor had basically been unified by Jordan. Compared with Jordan who needs to surpass Magicians, Jabbar, etc. to become GOAT, James has only one goal. If he wants to become GOAT, the only thing he needs to surpass is Jordan.

From a long-term perspective, the situation James faces is both good and bad. The good thing is that his goal is clear enough, that is, Jordan alone; but the bad thing is that Jordan's mountain is really a bit too high.

According to the previous logic, in terms of team honors, James' primary goal is to win three consecutive championships. In this way, at least he can match the Lakers led by O'Neal in 2000-02. He also won the FMVP for three consecutive times and was the first person after Jordan.

Because the difficulty of two consecutive championships is too high, if you want to spend the least cost to surpass GOAT, there is also a shortcut, that is, to directly complete the four consecutive championships that Jordan has not completed. As for whether one four-game winning streak can beat two three-game winning streaks? If James can still win four consecutive championships while maintaining his personal dominance, then he does have a certain amount of room for discussion. After all, such a height has never been seen in the NBA. If it is really achieved, no praise will be excessive.

After Jordan, there were several so-called successors, but they were all started and ended up being bad. Just from the perspective of the younger generation, James is indeed the one with the most conditions and the most opportunity to get close to Jordan.

First, let's briefly describe the league environment when James entered the NBA. At that time, the Lakers had just failed to win the goal of four consecutive championships. After losing the F4 championship the next year, the team fell apart. The two core members of O'Neal, 29, and Kobe, 23, have a chance to hit the GOAT throne if they find their next home well and are smooth enough.

Especially O'Neal, who had three consecutive FMVPs at that time, later chose to join the Heat and join Wade. Although he won one championship in 2006, O'Neal averaged only 13 points and 10 rebounds per game in the finals, which was only icing on the cake for his historical status, and it is basically determined that it is difficult to enter the discussion in the GOAT evaluation. After all, Jordan has achieved the three consecutive championships twice, and in other personal honors, O'Neal has basically no advantage compared to other celebrities.

Although Kobe sticks to the Lakers, after coming to Gasol, he completed his second consecutive championship and won two FMVPs, but he was reluctant to have all the first three championships as the second in command, and he was basically away from GOAT discussions. In terms of historical evaluation, relying on the five championships on the books and the media traffic bonus in the new era, Kobe also once won the praise closest to Jordan.

But to be fair, Kobe's personal achievements seem to be a little worse than Jabbar. Although they are both in hand, the gap between the regular season MVP is too big, so personally, at least Kobe was placed behind Jabbar. Naturally, Kobe is even further away from Jordan.

Back to the protagonist James, he became a genius representative as soon as he entered the league. He only had excellent results in the first seven years, and he was definitely comparable to Jordan's level at the same time. The team's record has soared and can advance to the finals in the fourth year. If they can win the championship, it is definitely a high enough achievement. Even if they don't win the championship, just from the starting point, James should still be able to beat Jordan of the same period.

But at that time, the NBA was in a strong West and weak East, and the Cavaliers were finally swept out 4-0 by Mala. James, who was only 22 years old, averaged 22 points, 7 rebounds and 6.8 assists in the finals. Although it was comprehensive enough, the three shooting percentages were 35.6%, 20%, and 69% respectively. Despite this, the fans were still amazed by his violent style of play, and the way James dominated the game was different from Jordan, which more or less brought some freshness and topicality.

According to the goal of surpassing Jordan, James doesn't have to hurry. After all, Jordan didn't reach the finals until he was 27 years old, and it is indeed worth imagining what height James can reach in the future five years ago. James then continued to improve, leading the Cavaliers to the first place in the regular season in the sixth and seventh years, and also won two regular season MVPs, officially entering the top NBA.

But at this moment, the playoffs became a threshold for James. Although he was the first in the league in the past two years, he stopped in the Eastern Conference Finals in the first year and was eliminated in the semi-finals in the second year. As we all know, for the trump card, the regular season is a battle for players' abilities, and the playoffs are the real decisive battlefield.

Looking back at the Cavaliers' lineup at that time, there were actually not much problems. In addition to James, the absolute core, there were three helpers who could score double-digit points. Since the team can win the first place in the regular season, the lineup will naturally not be the main problem, but some playoff parts have not been fully in place. Especially content outside the data, psychological factors such as competition willpower, team cohesion, and determination to win.

has always been the case on the NBA stage, and it is even more difficult to advance from a strong team to a champion team. At this time, James was only 25 years old, and he still had obvious advantages in catching up with the Trail Blazers.

And the entire league and even fans are not anxious about James' short-term downturn. At least after finding problems in the future and overcoming them, James still has the opportunity to win the world. But the fans were not in a hurry, but James was in a hurry, and the biggest storm in NBA history happened the next year. Since then, James' three decisions in his career have finally made him unable to tell the word "shortcuts" again, and no matter what honor record he has won, it is difficult to avoid doubt..

In the 2011 season, James' decision shocked the league. The three main stars, James, Wade and Bosh, announced that they were in the same team and gathered in the Heat.

Referring to James' own explanation, he thought the Cavaliers' lineup could not win the championship, so he chose to leave. He always believed that the Rockets in 1999 and the Celtics in 2008 were the ones who founded the Big Three, and he just followed the path of his predecessors.

For this explanation, we can discuss it one by one:

First, let's take a look at the Cavaliers who James thought the lineup was not good in those two years. In fact, there are still three teammates in the team who can contribute 12-18 points per game. Although this firepower support is not top-notch, it is definitely not bad. You can basically refer to the champion of that year, the Lakers, who are also similar to the team. When Jordan won his first championship in 1991, he had only one partner with 12 points and one partner with 18 points.

In addition, the high-level data such as MOV, ORtg, DRtg played by the entire Cavaliers team are all the top in the league and can definitely be regarded as the championship. Unless these team data are all based on James alone, it is really hard to skip it with just one sentence "Teammates can't do it."

In personal terms, in the playoffs and even the finals, what the Cavaliers lacked at that time was actually the deputy who scored key points in the rounds; but the Bulls dynasty did not have this problem at that time. After all, the team led the indisputable killer Michael Jordan at the critical moment. This also highlights the shortcomings of the all-around James. He really needs to find a way to deal with this problem, otherwise history will still repeat itself.

Combined with the Big Three combination mentioned by James, and during his Heat period, the Big Three combination was younger than the other time. The Rockets in 1999 were just a farce in which three veterans with an average of nearly 35 years old pursued the championship in their later years. They were famous but lacked in combat power. As for the three giants of the Celtics in 2008, the average age of 31 when they formed a team, between the year of fighting and the end of dusk. But what is certain is that these three were no longer top stars at the time, ranking 31st, 37th and 42nd in the league in scoring lists respectively, and only won one championship during the five-year cooperation period.

The three Heat giants learned from their predecessors' late teaming lessons, and at an average age of 27, they formed the first combination of three giants with both fame and substantial combat power in history. Except for James who is the MVP for two consecutive years, the three ranked second, fifth and ninth in the scoring list respectively the year before the team was formed.

Among the 12 Players of the Month issued by the league that year, the Heat Big Three won five times. Compared with the league status, Jordan, Barkley and David Robinson, who were the peak of the 1990s, cut their salaries to the same team. With such a super combination as

, James won two consecutive championships as he wished, and won the MVP and FMVP at the same time. He is indeed the best performer among the three. At the age of 28, James has accumulated 2 championships, 2 FMVPs, and 4 regular season MVPs. On the way to the challenger role, he completely caught up with Jordan's honor at the age of 28.

And the next one is to pursue three consecutive championships, but surprisingly, this controversial team with such a gorgeous lineup did not break through the three consecutive championship curse, and the following year, James did not stop at all and quickly turned around and opened a new chapter in his life.

During the four-year Heat period, although James accumulated a lot of criticism, he inevitably suffered a lot of criticism. A player in the league could not receive enough respect, and even fans could not support him purely. This is also a very rare phenomenon in the history of the league. To borrow Wade's interview at that time, when talking about why the Big Three did not win the championship in the first year:

"At that time, we were the public enemies of the entire league. The feeling of hatred by thousands of people made us lose the direction of the game."

It is necessary to mention here that after James left the Cavaliers, compared with the Bulls who did not have Jordan in 1994, the Cavaliers who did not have James fell sharply. This may also show that James is more important to the team than Jordan back then, but is this really the case? Let's restore it.

First, after reviewing the Bulls' situation in 1994, and completing the dynasty achievements of three consecutive championships, the core team is still there, just taking away Jordan, and at the same time, several important rotations have been added, such as Kukoc, shooter Cole, center Longley, etc., which are the supplement to the current combat power and the cornerstone of another three consecutive championships in the future. The team's overall combat power is not weak; although the playoffs still break through the first round, when it comes to a critical moment, it is obvious whether there is a real sword or a gun to discuss the winning or losing.

In contrast, when James left the Cavaliers in 2010, the team directly chose the reconstruction mode, giving up the introduction of combat power and choosing to play badly and draw the No. 1 pick.

Judging from the team plan, there are two completely different cases of Jordan without the Bulls and the Cavaliers without James. This comparison is still a little lacking in objectivity.

Back to James' main line, after the Heat's Big Three disbanded, James made the choice to fall below everyone's glasses, and returned to the Cavaliers who left that year, hoping to stage a scene of a hero in his hometown.

The Cavaliers at that time were led by No. 1 scorer Irving. They entered the 15th place in the scoring list at the age of 21. They are a high-quality future potential stock. What is even more rare is that they have a big heart, and this type of player happens to be the helper James needs the most. In addition, the Cavaliers also exchanged No. 1 Wiggins for a double-double Wolf King Kevin Love, who ranked fourth in the league in scoring list and third in the rebounding list that year.

As for why the Cavaliers have so many No. 1 picks, it has to be mentioned that the Cavaliers got three first rounds after James left, plus the results of years of bad play. By coincidence, the value of these draft picks in the end was still received by James.

Once again, with the Big Three lineup, the three reached the finals in the first year of cooperation. Unfortunately, Love and Irving were injured one after another and lost to the Warriors. The Cavaliers, who were healthy all of them, had a difficult reversal to win the championship the following year. James won his third championship and the third FMVP trophy.

But at the same time, several difficult-to-eliminate labels in the past have not left him, such as "I will not join the team without a winning team", "I will not win the championship without a super helper", "I am good at calculating and only want to win the championship", "The team after the breakup will be miserable" and other negative labels have been following him to this day.

Especially the last point is a topic that is discussed on both sides. Those who support James will say that the team collapsed after he left the team, so it reflects the importance of James; while those who oppose it believe that if you want to form such a star lineup, the team must exchange existing and future chips. Once the core combination is broken down, the team will naturally have no future in reconstruction.

Personally understand that these two statements are actually reasonable and aim to see them.

Perhaps due to fate, when the Cavaliers wanted to pursue a second consecutive championship the next year, they unexpectedly broke out to join the Warriors' larger group to disrupt the situation. They won two consecutive championships by the Warriors in line with the Big Three. James hopes that the team will be exchanged for Paul George and caused a storm, which eventually led to Irving's departure. It's basically a matter of time before the Cavaliers can't keep James.

After two consecutive years of defeat, James chose to leave the Cavaliers and join the Los Angeles Lakers. The team was in a very obvious situation at that time, with a bunch of potential rookies but unable to achieve a record. James' first year of record did not improve much. It is obvious that relying on this lineup, it is obvious that he cannot win the championship.

The next year, the Lakers were another trade that shocked the entire league. They exchanged the No. 1 pick with three potential rookies and three first rounds, forming the strongest No. 1 picks in the 21st century, and the two finally won the championship that year. Although many fans question the value of the championship in the quarantine park, I personally believe that the championship is the championship and there is no controversy. James also became the first player to win the championship in all three teams.

OK, the above is the process of James winning 4 championships, 4 FMVPs, and 4 regular season MVPs. Then he maintained a good state for many years and broke a series of data records, which is another achievement.

Looking back at the many stars in the post-Jordan era, James is indeed the one who can firmly take the lead in the book honors, but it is undeniable that he did face a lot of doubts and ridicule in the process of obtaining these honors, which has never happened in history before. Therefore, for many James' honors, it seems that they need to be redefined to accurately evaluate James' career.

When everyone is discussing why James can maintain a competitive mentality year by year, from a personal point of view, this needs to go back to the "challenger" role mentioned at the beginning. When most fans still choose to give the GOAT position to Jordan, James' pursuit has not yet ended, unless he himself no longer cares about the GOAT title.

Foreseeable that with the continuous accumulation of James' historical data and the gradual departure of Jordan's era, James' GOAT's number of votes supported by votes may still have a chance to continue to rise in the future, and young fans may also set a new definition standard for GOAT, but it is certain that there will inevitably be a barrier between fans who have experienced the Jordan era.

In my personal understanding, Jordan is still considered GOAT. The reason is not only the commonly mentioned factors such as data awards, game viewing ability, key ball ability, and commercial value influence. It is more because he demonstrated his willpower and spirit of not giving up in the process of pursuing success. When encountering difficulties and pressure, he showed extraordinary persistence, never evaded, and repeatedly crushed doubts.

In that extremely pursued the balance and competitiveness of each team, it perfectly achieved impeccable personal and team honors and achieved absolute dominance. Without the above moving factors, Jordan might not be worthy of the title of God of Basketball, and he would not be able to be the 30-year glorious moment, and it is still worthy of later generations to talk about.